Change in eating habits

I was wondering if anyone here has experienced a change in their Shiba?s eating habits. Hopefully you won?t mind this awfully long post, but I want to make sure you know all the facts. We have two female Shiba?s, sisters from the same litter and they are almost 11 months old now. We have had them since they were 5 ½ weeks old and have fed them Nutro Max for puppies from day one. After we got them spayed, we started noticing that our black and tan Shiba, Miko was getting a little plump. So, we decided we needed to start feeding them separately. So, we would measure out their food and put it in their crates. We started doing this around September. Well, around the beginning of December we noticed that our Cream Shiba, Sami wasn?t as enthused about eating as she used to be. Sometimes she wouldn?t finish all her food, but if we left it in her crate at night, she would eat it. Then she started throwing up stomach bile. After she did this the second time, I took her to the vet, which was December 10th. In all other aspects she seemed perfectly fine. Well, the vet thought that maybe she got into something like squirrel/bunny/bird poop that upset her stomach. As crazy as that may sound to some, these two have this thing for bunny poop, you?d think they were eating chocolate covered raisons or something. So, he gave her a shot for nausea and some antibiotics for the intestinal tract. Well, her eating seemed to improve and she really ate good the two days after the antibiotics were gone. Then at the end of the second day, she ended up throwing up about half of what she ate, 2 hours later. Got up the next morning and she wouldn?t eat anything at all. So, I ended up taking her to the emergency vet. I was concerned that maybe she had eaten something that wasn?t blocking her up, but was causing her problems. As an example, Sami figured out that with a little work, she could remove the plastic plugs that go over the screw holes in our two computer chairs. By time we figured out what she was doing, a few were missing. So, we removed the rest of them. Well, they took x-rays and found nothing. So, they gave her another shot for nausea and had me put her on a bland diet of boiled hamburger and rice for three days. She really seemed to like that! Well, on the 4th day I was supposed to start gradually adding her own food to the hamburger and rice, which was Christmas day. Well, she wouldn?t eat anything at all. So, I took her back to the emergency vet and they did some blood tests and a urinalysis. They said that her blood pressure was low, her electrolytes were low and they said her kidneys weren?t functioning properly, they weren?t concentrating the urine like they were supposed to. They said in so many words that they thought her kidneys were shutting down. They wanted to keep her overnight on IV fluids and send in a urine culture the next day. Well, I told them I wanted to transfer her to my vet in the morning. He is one of if not the best vet around here. I tell you, I cried the rest of the day and cried myself to sleep. Well, I picked her up the next morning, IV bag, cone on the head and all and took her to my vet. He said he wanted to keep her for the night and continue the IV fluids and get her eating. He also sent in the urine culture and started her on a antibiotic for the kidneys. The next morning they said I could come and get her, that she was eating and seemed to be acting normal. They were feeding her an Iams weight control food as they didn?t want to work her stomach hard for a couple days. They sent home some of that food and said to switch her back to her regular food after a couple days. Well, she still refused to eat her regular food. I was talking to my sister who owns and shows 8 Bernese Mountain dogs and she said sometimes a dog will associate their food with being sick and said sometimes she has to change their food to get them to eat. So, since she seemed to like the flavor of the Iams, I switched her over to the Iams puppy food. Well, we got the results of the urine culture and it showed nothing bacterial. She was still being finicky with her eating and threw up a couple more times. So, last Tuesday he had me bring her in for another round of blood work. I talked to him for quite some time. He said he looked over the tests that were done at the emergency vets and he said he saw absolutely nothing that would indicate that there was a problem with the kidneys. His theory is, that some dogs when they reach adulthood, don?t eat as much or often as they did as puppies. He said some dogs only eat 5 or 6 good meals a week. But to me, that doesn?t explain why she is throwing up stomach bile. I wish I could go back to just leaving the food out so she can eat whenever she feels like it, but then we would still have problems with the other one overeating. Any ideas or suggestions as to what is going on here would be greatly appreciated.

Judy,
I'm sorry to hear about your girl's eating problems. If the tests are all coming back that there's nothing physically wrong with her, I'd say that it probably is a food association issue. That or maybe she's eating the food too quickly or something. Something seems to be upsetting her and that's why she's getting sick. Do you have their crates next to each other? Maybe the proximity to her sister while they are eating is bothering her? I can tell you that it seems that even a day or more will go by before Budi will eat. Well, before we got our puppy. We free fed Budi (before the pup) and the only time I put food in his bowl was when it was empty. Now, I can't free feed him or the puppy will eat his food. So, his food is put down in the kitchen in the morning while the pup is separated so that he can eat as much as he likes. Meanwhile the pup is offered her food in her crate. Once that is all done, I pick up Budis food. I leave the puppys food in her crate so that she can eat whenever she wants but Budi is not allowed in her crate to eat her food. It has worked well and we have had the pup for about 5 weeks now. We do the same sometime later in the evening. Plus, Budis food is left down overnight and he has full roam of the house while the pup is in the crate. I was just thinking, maybe your girl doesn't like eating in the confinement of the crate? Maybe you can feed the other in the crate and her outside of it? Just a thought. Anyway, I hope that some of this may help you. Please let us all know what happens.
Mitzy and the gang! :)

Mitzy, thanks so much for replying. When we first got these two, we fed them from the same bowl. We would put about 2 cups in at a time and replace when it was gone. They also slept in the same crate until they were about 2 months old. Then we got the second crate and put them side by side until they got used to sleeping apart. We have a microwave cart and we ended up putting one crate on either side and they can barely see each other. I think part of the problem is that they are such different eaters. Miko will stand at the bowl until she is full, not stopping for water or anything else. Sami on the other hand is more of a snacker. She will eat a few bites, stop and drink some water and then she may run off and play and return later for more food. Every thing was fine until Miko started gaining too much weight. The vet says she needs to lose at least 3 pounds, although I think she needs to lose a little more as she weighs 6 more pounds then Sami and they are the same size except for girth. I call her my little chubbie wubbie. LOL Anyways, I think that is part of the problem as we just can't leave food out anymore. So, we have started feeding them 3 times a day. I measure out how much Miko gets and give her a 3rd of it in the morning, afternoon and then in the evening. We have thought about the crate issue, especially since Sami seems to like drinking water when she eats. We shut Miko's door so when she gets finished she can't help Sami finish hers. We leave Sami's crate open or even sometimes put it next to the water bowl. I put about 2 cups of food in Sami's bowl and that way at the end of the day, I can tell how much she has eaten. If I don't think she has eaten enough, I put it in her crate at night. Sometimes she will finish it, sometimes she won't. Sometimes I think I'm just a worry wort, but when she eats the grass and throws it up or throws up the stomach bile, that worries me. I've had many dogs in my life and I have a hard time believing that a dog will simply just not eat every time you feed them. I've never come across that before. But, it does make me feel a little better when you say Budi will sometimes not eat every day. These are our first two Shiba's. I had never heard of the breed until almost 2 years ago. My bosses daughter had a breeding pair. She was going through some personal problems and she is in the Air Force and decided to more onto base and couldn't keep them anymore. She brought the dogs to him to keep until she could find someone to buy them. Well, he had them for almost a year and then they had 3 puppies. One was stillborn. He was not very happy because he's single and the dogs were kind of tying him down. So, he decided that once the pups were old enough, he was going to give them away and find a home for the parents. It had been 2 years since we had to have our german shepherd put to sleep and decided it was time to get another dog. So, we decided to take one. Well, just before the pups were ready to go to their new homes, my boss told me he didn't have a good feeling about the other person that was going to take one and wanted to know if I would take them both. He said he really wanted to see the girls stay together. Well, that kind of solved a lot of problems as we still couldn't decide which one to get and had the name narrowed down to two choices. I will say they were a lot of work and they are definitely a different kind of dog. But, we have enjoyed them so much and I love them dearly! I just hope we can resolve this eating issue before I get an ulcer. LOL Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

Well Judy, I can't help but say, Shibas can be picky about eating. I told you that Budi sometimes doesn't eat everyday. This is the same dog that had food aggression issues as a pup and would scarf down his food as soon as he was given it. Even before the pup he wouldn't eat it all. You would think with a pup in the house that he would go back to eating it all quickly, right? Nope. I have actually gone so far as to add Iams gravy to both dogs bowls to get them to eat more of it in one sitting. I do not do it all of the time because I do not want them to get spoiled and expect it all of the time.
You mentioned something that just got me thinking. You said that Sami likes to drink water when she is eating. Is it a lot of bile that she is throwing up when she does it? Also, does she throw up right after drinking? The breeder that I got my pup from has a dog (our pups mom) that if she drinks too quick (which she does a lot) she will throw it up. Maybe Sami is the same way? I had never heard of it before meeting this breeder but then I saw her do it so I know they do.
Also, how old are the girls? Although they are sisters, I am sure that you are noticing lots of differences in them. Maybe it has something to do with maturity. Are they spayed? Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud here hoping that something might make sense to you. Another thought, is Miko the more dominant dog? You said that Sami seems better at the vets but after home for a while she goes back to the same old problem, right? So I would think that it is environmental in some way. Maybe Miko is being overbearing to her (especially when you are not around)? Just some thoughts.
What a cute, interesting story on how you got your girls. We were bad, and we got Budi from a pet store. We had lost our cocker in January of that year and I was waiting for my hubby to get back home (military). Well, although I had been doing lots of research on what kind of dog to get, we went to our local pet store to see what kinds of dogs they had. It was a nice shop that we had gone to for YEARS for our services. Well, there was Budi, lying in the bottom cage, sleeping on his back, with his jaws around one of the bars. Too cute! LOL! Well, we should have known he was going to be a handful just by that but we fell in love with him and came back the next day to buy him. Hehehe! That was after I went home and read everything I could find online about the breed. It sounded like the ideal breed for us and has been too. Although we had a heck of a time with him and his aggression issues when he was a pup and I swore I would never get another one, here we are with Keena. LOL! Now I cannot imagine getting any other breed. Hehehe! Yes, I am a Shiba Inu snob. ROFL! I started looking for a Shiba breeder last summer and emailed a local one asking if she knew of anyone that had pups, or had any herself. Well, she didnt have any, but we did talk about our dogs a bit. A few months later, she emailed that she had bred one female and the other decided that she too wanted to have pups. So, she had two females pregnant at the same time. Yikes! She pretty much gave us pick of the litters as she had both parents and I had been talking with her the longest about getting a pup. I liked the mother of the litter we picked from more than the other one. This litter was the older of the two (two week age difference) and had two females with one male versus the opposite in the other litter. We really were looking for a female unless a male had a better personality for us. Keena was really quiet and her sister was WAYYYY outgoing. So was her brother. Well, we were worried for a little that she was too quiet. Hmph! That changed! LOL! Once we got her away from her overbearing siblings, she became a little firecracker. ROFL! I can only imagine what her siblings are like. I know that the other female is an escape artist. The breeder cannot keep her in any of her crates, she always manages to get out. That would drive me nuts especially during the teething stage!
Well, I guess I better get going, this is turning into quite a book. I hope that things get better for you and the girls. Good luck!
Mitzy

Mitzy, thanks for replying again. The only times I have seen her throw up the stomach bile is either right after she has eaten some grass, or when she won?t eat her food. She will start wrenching and then throw up a little puddle. She has only thrown up food once. I actually thought about getting some of that gravy. I had seen it somewhere long before we had problems, but I?ve gone to a couple places looking for it and so far haven?t found it. I do cheat however to get her to eat more food. LOL We have taken our girls to two obedience classes at PetSmart. During one of our sessions, Miko just wouldn?t do anything. So, our trainer got out the doggy crack. Have you seen the food that is in rolls? It looks and smells like summer sausage. It smells good enough to eat myself! LOL Well, our trainer calls it doggy crack because he said most dogs will do anything to get some. Both our girls just love it! So, when she doesn?t seem to want to eat, I just get some of that out and shave some lightly in her bowl and mix it with her food and then she will usually eat. To answer your other questions, they are going to be 1 on March 1st. They are both spayed and Sami is the dominant one although sometimes I think they both want to be the dominant one. LOL They play fight all the time and although sometimes it sounds pretty fierce, they have never hurt each other. They will be play fighting one minute and the next sharing a cow hoof. If you have never given your dogs cow hooves, my two love them and it really helped cut down on the other things they tried to chew up. LOL I don?t know if your two do this, but when they are in a more mellow mood and laying on the floor chewing on their hooves, they will mouth at each other and make what we call monkey noises, it?s hilarious! These two have made a lot of different noises that I have never heard from any other dog.

I do feel pretty fortunate that we got them, especially for free. Of course, there was some ?talk? at work, but my boss has a cat and I have 3 cats and we talk about them from time to time. I just think he knew how much I loved animals and would take good care of them. Before we got them, we bought two books and read them cover to cover so at least we would be a little prepared as to what we were getting ourselves into. LOL We have only seen one adult Shiba in person, it was a female and weighed 17 pounds. It looked so tiny compared to ours and didn?t have the thick coat like ours do. I don?t know how much Budi weighs, but I think ours are at the top of the scale as far as weight. Sami weighs about 26 pounds and Miko weighs 33. That is why I think she needs to lose at least 6 pounds. Since we got ours, one of the pet stores in town has gotten in 4 Shiba puppies. We only got to see one of them, we were told about the other 3. The one we did see was a black and tan like Miko. It was 11 weeks old and looked smaller then Miko and Sami were when we got them at 5 ½ weeks! The guy that had the female that we saw was looking for a puppy and he ended up buying one of the 3 that the pet store had got in. I saw a couple pictures of it and it looked more normal to me so it will be interesting to see how that one turns out. We plan on meeting them in the spring when the weather is nicer and taking all four dogs for walks. Sometimes I wonder about the puppies they get as my sister who has 8 Bernese Mountain dogs says that that particular pet store is notorious for getting puppies from puppy mills.

Well, I?d better go as it won?t be too long and I have to leave for work. If you are interested in seeing some pictures of my girls, I do have a gallery at Pbase. It started out as a photo-a-day gallery, but things got hectic between work, obedience training and other things. LOL Have a good day!

http://www.pbase.com/...

Wow Judy! The girls are soooo cute! I really enjoyed looking through the pictures.
After seeing the pictures, along with the captions, I personally wouldn't worry about their weight. It looks like you got the bigger end of the Shiba spectrum. Budi is 3 years old and weighs about 35 pounds. He's weighed this for a while and even when I cut back on his food, it didn't make a difference, maybe a pound or so. Actually, I didn't cut back on his food, I switched him over to a diet variety. So, I would say that you got the Moose variety of Shibas. LOL! Keena seems like she's going to be a smaller girl. At 11 weeks old, she only weighed 7 pounds. I doubt that she'll be as big as Budi. Which can be a good thing because having two moose dogs running around here could be entertaining. LOL!
I've gotten the gravy at pet stores, the grocery store, WalMart, etc. I don't put much on, just enough to get their attention. There are multiple flavors. I've never seen the treat/food you are talking about. I'll have to look the next time I go to the pet store. As for cow hooves, yes mine love them too. But, I don't let them have them when they are together because they try to take them from each other and then it becomes an issue. With Budi being so much bigger, it can be a real problem. That is pretty much the only toy/treat that I won't let them have when they are together.
Yes, you are VERY fortunate that you got the girls, and for free. I've paid a small fortune for both of mine. We had never seen a Shiba before Budi but since then I've seen quite a few. There's a cream colored male that we've seen on our walks by the river. There's a red female that gets walked around town here. Then of course I saw all the Shiba's at the breeder's. She has a total of six adults. Well, now she has 5 as she had to put one of her females down after someone poisoned her. She was the mother of the other litter. Fortunately the rest of the dogs are okay.
Anyway, from everything you are saying about the girls, I wouldn't worry about them. It sounds like they are just showing how different they are.
Guess I should get going too. If you would like to email me in private, my email addy is mitzysjunk <at> gmail. com.
Later!
Mitzy

Oh! The pictures were just adorable! I loved them!

Well, I think we got down to the bottom of Sami's eating problems today. Last Wednesday we went though another round of her eating grass and throwing it up. Then Thursday she didn't want to eat anything and again ate the grass and threw it up. So, I called the vet and they had me give her Pepcid twice a day and scheduled her to come in today and they gave her barium and took x-rays as it traveled through her body. What they found out is that she has a pouch in her esophagus. He said food is probably collecting there and causing her to not feel good. Then she eats the grass and throws up, and the stomach fluids are only making it worse. Kind of like a vicious cycle. Unfortunately, there is not much they can do for the situation and there is no surgery to correct this. But, he gave us some ideas that will hopefully make the situation better. We have to elevate her food bowls so that when she eats and drinks, gravity will help get the food to her stomach better instead of in the pouch. He also said feeding her several small meals a day will help too. So, we will have to see how it goes. Also, when her stomach does act up, we can give her the Pepcid, that seems to help a lot.

Glad to hear that at least you know what the issue is after all that trauma:)
I have a 9 month old Shiba, Toby and I swear he has been more work than my three children combined! LOL
We are all in love with him but he requires more time and attention than I ever thought any person or pet could. He is spoiled rotten but my biggest worry is that he EATS everythiing in the yard, especially if it moves like bugs, worms, snails, etc and leaves are like a favorite treat. This has caused many awake nights to his cries when he gets his crate dirty with vomit or has diarreah. I spend more at the vet than the grocery store !
I just hope he grows out of it soon.... :)

Sandi,
Although every dog is different, like every person, he should grow out of it. I have two Shibas. Budi's favorite outdoor activities as a young dog were to dig holes, chew the wooden fence, and to "help prune" my rhodedendrons and lilac bushes. We moved and haven't had anymore outdoor destructive activities out of him. Keena is just over a year old and we call her our little termite. LOL! We have a wooden deck and yes, it has lots of chewed sections on the wooden slats. She digs a little but what she likes to do is root around in the yard. Hopefully she'll outgrow all of this by the end of the year.
It has been my experience that Shiba's tend to have a maturity aspect that clicks in around 1.5 years. Then some of these problems tend to go away. Shiba's are hunters. That's why the hunting for bugs, worms, ANTS, etc. Yep, the leaves are hunted too and they are crunchy in the fall/winter so they make wonderful noise!
My dogs have a bunch of toys out in the yard with them. They have ropes, balls, squeaker toys (the ones that are just wayyyyy too annoying to keep inside, lol), etc to play with. Budi is quite content to just sun bathe but Keena being younger wants something to do and wants to be out with him. So, thats why the toys. That is what has worked for us. So, my suggestion is that if you are going to leave Toby outside for lengths of time unsupervised, give him things to play with so that he doesn't decide to start hunting. It won't stop it completely, but it should cut back on the amount of things hunted.
Good luck!